I’ve really been wanting to use a local bank for the build because I think they understand the Chattanooga market better than a national bank and I think they would be easier to work with and have a better grip on what I’m trying to do.
I’ve been told by two banks that if I was building a boring plain McMansion it wouldn’t be a problem, I’ve been told repeatedly my numbers are good, my downpayment is good (I’m putting nearly 50% down if you can believe that), credit good, income good, castle… not good. They don’t understand the castle, they don’t want to finance the castle. Why don’t I just build a generic house, it wouldn’t be a problem?
They worry that, apparently, in the event of a foreclosure (again, remember, my numbers are all excellent) they won’t be able to sell the castle because…wait for it… no one wants to live in a castle. Please. If you’d like to live in a castle, go ahead and comment on this post. But whats more, they worry that people would hate living in castles so much, that they would despise it to such a high degree that they will be forced to liquidate the property for more than a 51% discount (remember, I’m putting 50% down) creating a loss for the bank. So even if your dream isn’t to live in a castle, go ahead and comment if you would “accept” a castle at the same price of an equivalent square footage McMansion. I mean, if you had to choose between two houses with the same size/amenities, and one was a McMansion, and one was a castle, which would you choose?
The first bank, recommended by the architects, the loan officer was all gun ho, and I thought it was a sure thing, I was told it was a sure thing, at the very last minute they pulled the plug because the management at the bank rejected it at the final stage of the process. This caused delays, we wanted to start building last Spring, all this summer has been finding other banks.
Of course, as I’m contacting other banks, the first thing I say is, its a castle, are you sure thats okay? The plans and those nice 3D renderings have been done for awhile, so it isn’t as if they can’t look and see exactly what I mean. Another bank, recommended by someone else, said okay, and I’ve been working with them… and then just now they pull the plug. They said the article made them realize it was more castle-y than they thought. But seriously, they’ve had the plans for months, and it was the very first thing I asked them.
I don’t blame the loan officers at either bank, they were on my side, the first one even said he would loan me the money personally (if he had it), I blame their bosses, the people making the final decisions. Our whole banking system is a mess because of the recession and Washington and everything else. I’m incredibly successful, I have a credit score near 800, I’m putting 50% down, and I still can’t get a loan.
It is incredibly frustrating to me to be told “Hey, great income, great credit, great downpayment, but sorry, we can’t lend to you because my boss doesn’t understand why you want a house that looks like a castle.”
Do you know what banks are supposed to do when they have no idea how much a house is worth? Get an appraisal, duh. So I paid, out of my pocket, $3000 for two appraisals (it has to be two, because of the size of the loan). Guess what? According to the appraisers, these being the people whose job it is to figure out how much houses will sell for, my castle would do perfectly fine on the real estate market, better than fine. I’m still sitting pretty with a loan to value of near 50%. But even then, the bankers say no, despite having the appraisal in front of them telling them what they could sell the house for, they say no.
I tried other local banks too, many told me know right off the bat, it was just too big of a project for them to handle. All is not lost, I have one more bank, the most likely bank, they did another high end vaguely castle-like home recently, still working the loan. We hope to close on that in 3-4 weeks. Since the first bank bailed on me I learned not to put all my eggs in one basket, but now that another bank bailed I have just the one egg left, and that makes me nervous, and stressed, and angry.
So maybe I can turn that article in the newspaper into something beneficial, since the cat is out of the bag and apparently everyone in town now knows about my house, if anyone is a banker or knows a banker in the Chattanooga area who might be interested in this project, please, let me know. I’ve had the rug pulled out from under me too many times not to be intensely worried about that one wee egg left in my basket. Of course, everyone please comment if you’d like to live in a castle so I can have a sort of moral victory over those stuffy bankers, and if anyone is looking for a bank recommendation, I’ll post giving them my whole hearted recommendation.
Originally, with this blog, I was hoping it to be anonymous, I didn’t think of building plans being public record, a journalist seeing ours, Googling my name, and voila. But now the cat is out of the bag, and everyone in town, apparently, knows what I’m doing. So, let me put that to use. In addition to me wanting a backup bank, just in case, we still haven’t picked many of the trades who will be working on the house. If you think you have something to offer please let me know. I will be continuing to blog about construction, and apparently, there will be media interest, so it could be good promotion for you as well if you’re chosen. Also, my wife still is looking for a job, she is a child psychiatrist and they’re so rare they’re basically in demand everywhere, she has interviewed at different hospitals or healthcare providers down in town, but hasn’t signed a contract anywhere yet. If you know someone who might need a doctor with her training, we’ll certainly take the referral. Erlanger specifically we’ve never heard from, through I hear through the grapevine they need someone like her. Oh and hey, I guess, since HGTV is just up in Knoxville, since this is no longer a secret I guess it can really not be a secret if anyone knows anyone who works up at the network.
Ishmael,
I am an architect in Chattanooga, and I freaking love this. I couldn’t be happier for you and your wife. What a fun concept. I wish more people would express their passions through their home design. But as you mention in the post oftentimes banks and therefore homeowners put too much emphasis on resale. Just wanted to let you know you’ve got support on the ground here in Chatt. Best of luck working through the bank issues and in the completion of the castle.
Mike
I would love to live in a castle, but I don’t live in America, so I don’t know if that helps you at all… I would far rather have a unique house than a standard like-two-peas-in-a-pod house, even if it meant paying a bit more for it. And if I could have it at the same price as a McMansion? Bargain!
Hey there, I have been following your blog for sometime now. My bf and my life long goal is to live in a castle!!! We live in ga just south of Chattanooga. Hopefully you find a bank to finance your castle!! That will give us hope in the future
I really wish you luck on this. My dream is to live in a castle, too. I have some property and am researching how to build my own, which is how I came to your site. I will need someone to finance me as well, so it is good to know how the banks see this.
My opinion is that the banks are looking at this from a long-term, development perspective. If everybody lived in a castle, imagine how much of a pain it would be for real-estate developers to tear down and build up whatever they want to put there 50-100 years from now – a mall, a highway, a condo. So they try to put a damper on it. It’s easy to tear down McMansions. They can’t outlaw castles (yet), but they sure as hell can refuse to fund it.
The older I get the more I realize that what banks choose to finance is often the direct opposite of what is best.
Good luck.
You know what the smart response to this would be? Not that you are stupid, and not everyone is innovative, but innovation brings about more creativity, imagination, happiness, and customers. The answer, use the castle as a mall or whatever you next business for the site will be. The castle alone will cost more than anything they chose to put there unless it is a major successful cooperation. So creating a new idea and business as a tourist attraction will set you apart from the rest. Anything is possible. People who cannot think of new innovative business ideas will fail in the long run ;).
Sadly, I might have just given away a great idea. shhhh.
cooperation is corporation. typos, typing to fast.
I would love to live in a castle, and I hope to build something like yours in the future. Good luck with the banks!
Good den, My Lord
Tis most splendid that you are building a castle. I actually have a Medieval room in VA. Need to see a picture of my glass stain Dragon my friend made. Chattanooga is a great place to live for you, your Lady and your children. We just moved here. So I say Do as Thou Wilt.
You need to go to a mortgage broker instead of just a lender. The issue with a castle is that you can not find comps for the appraisal unless you go to other cities. I know Ronnie Burke refinanced a castle years ago. Last I heard he worked for RealtyCenter Mortgage. 423.308.1230. He can shop multiple lenders for you to see who would be willing to finance your castle. I used to be a loan officer and am currently work with a builder in Chattanooga. I understand your pain.
This looks amazing and I hope you get your financing but to be honest with you, its best if you went with someone other than a local bank. I understand and appreciate going local with this but from my experience around Chattanooga (and not to knock all of them) but for something this big and important I’d finance with a national chain.
Ravenwood Castle is not that old (~1995), and although a B&B, they might have some tips that could help. http://www.ravenwoodcastle.com Perhaps banks would feel better if they knew things like this could be done with a castle if the bank had to foreclose and sell?
Also I am a programmer at a Chattanooga startup that sells building materials: SupplyHog.com. I know we would love to help out anyway we can. Just say you’re the castle guy and that Wil sent you.
I would love to live in a castle too, and am just starting to see if it might be feasible. I hope you’ll have a secret room behind a book case or something like that
We will Doug, 3 of them, they’re actually not that expensive, ~$1500. Thats including of course the custom carpentry to build the nice solid oak bookshelf, which alone would probably be $1000.
Best of luck. As someone wanting to do something similar in the long-term (as we’ve discussed before), I’ve always worried about this. So much so that in most of my planning, I’ve always assumed that I would need to pay cash for almost all of it. I can understand a bank feeling insecure about a castle that has been very customized (even if it is worth a lot, it can sit on the market for a long time – lots of examples of this). What is surprising is exactly what you write about – you are giving a significant down payment so your LTV is in good shape and have great credit. I echo the comments earlier about trying with a more national bank.
Either way – Best of luck and I hope it works out.
I’d love to own a castle. A castle at a 50% discount would be a no brainer. These banks are being too conservative.
I know you will make it happen. Others have built castles (or castle-like houses) elsewhere in this country and I’d have to believe some did it with less than 50% down. The banks you’ve dealt with so far are simply afraid of anything that doesn’t fit the mold of their standard business model to make money. If this did get national exposure, you would have half a dozen lenders knocking on your door the next day eagerly willing to take your 50% deposit. Don’t give up and you will succeed.
–Rick
Ishmael, you are living my dream. I actually found your blog because I, too, want to build a castle to live in. I was hoping to find a cost breakdown that would help me estimate my own costs.
I’m actually delighted to find that this project is happening now, so I can follow along. I’ve bookmarked your blog.
Because I’m not sure I’ll ever be successful enough to put 50% down on what I’m sure is a several hundred million dollar project, I was actually planning on approaching my castle as a business rather than a residence. I designed three stages of construction: (1) small town, to be used as a renaissance fair venue and historical tourism park. Including large cleared field for festival grounds and jousting (2) Castle walls, towers, and keep, to be used as centerpiece for renaissance events, historical tours, possibly rooms to rent during events, and sections of the building off-limits to visitors for residency. (3) Market square and church building added to town (church ideal for hosting weddings).
I had imagined that approaching it as a business would allow me to live a dream by turning my castle into also a source of income once it’s completed. There are also grants in my state for creating a tourist attraction in a rural area, creating jobs, and such.
I wonder if Walt Disney needed loans, and if so, if anyone told him they didn’t understand why he wanted to build a castle in the middle of his park. 😉
I will be following your progress with enthusiasm, and HELL YES I would buy a foreclosed castle, if I had the money for a down payment.
Don’t let the bankers get you down. I’m excited for you.
Oh, I forgot to mention – I did two years towards a degree in architectural drafting because I loved designing homes, and during class one day my building codes instructor asked me what I would build, ideally, if I had my choice. I told him about my three stage plan.
He got upset with me. In front of the whole class, and told me that it was frivolous nonsense and that I didn’t seem to take life seriously, but I shouldn’t be wasting my time or his.
So, yeah. There are going to be people in your life who think you’re crazy, but for the most part I just think they’re bland.
Hey, great life long goal. I too have that dream, except I am thinking of refurbishing and modernizing a foreign castle. I am happy for you. Good will towards you, your wife, and your family. Awesome credit. My goal is to live in a castle of course with my husband, children, and one day have it as a safe haven for family and friends. Thanks for posting this; I love it! God Bless. Contact anytime, I will listen.
Hi, I’m a journalist from Barcroft Media, an international press agency based in London, we write news and feature stories for newspapers, magazines and broadcasters in the UK and around the world. I would love to talk to you further about your project and what you’re intending to build. If you could drop me an email at amanda at barcroftmedia.com I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you, Amanda Stringfellow
I would simply LOVE to live in a castle!!! The only reason im not in switzerland building it right now is because i have to get through school.
Hi April
You have a great idea very similar to some ideas I have been dreaming about for years. I finally have some time to actually pursue it. If you have time to discuss this, please contact me at raul@raul.co Keep dreaming !
I hope that you found your loan. I’d choose Castle or any alternative looking home over the same old boring styles that go up across America. A beautifully built castle would certainly be at the top of the list. All the best to you.
Just found this blog and frankly I think this is great. Me and my wife would both love to live in a castle and that’s our plan in the future. Wondering if you got the financing issues resolved? If not and not sure if you have already checked it out but there is a castle built south of Nashville, TN and they seem to be continuing to build on it. Not sure if they financed but it might be worth reaching out to them to see how they figured it out as their castle has been up for a few years now. Either way best of luck and look forward to more posts.
I think you might just be be going about this the wrong way. It’s one thing to build a HOUSE that is designed to RESEMBLE a Castle, but to build an actual castle does entail certain problems: Castle interiors contain rooms or features that are not suited for common real estate. Such as: A throne room, a dungeon, a torture room, towers, etc.
Again, the trick is to built a HOUSE, not a castle, or a MANSION, again not a castle. Design it to resemble a castle on the outside, with a practical normal interior, and classifying it as a house should not be a problem. If you’re building a mansion, you can probably get carried away with rooms, but you should still be able to get it coded as a mansion.
Overall, it should not be a problem to build a house that resembles a castle. Where you can built it may be of some concern. You could design a swimming pool to become a Moat. If people want to live in Renaisance style homes, or whatever other style, why not just built whole towns that are modern on the inside, but meant to reflect a certain elaborate beauty or theme on the outside. These would be perfect for newly built cooperative neighborhoods. These could be great places to rent for vacations, and be surrounded by people who came to enjoy the same types of experience.
Steve that is precisely what we’re doing. We’re not building a time capsule or a museum exhibit, we’re building a home in a castle shell.
Ishmael, don’t let anybody squash your dream!
It sounds to me like those you’ve spoken to in the banking industry either feel threatened by the idea of a castle, or it’s not their particular cup of tea so they’ve rather arrogantly taken it upon themselves to decide that ‘no one would want to live in a caste’. How preposterous and narrow-minded of them (and sadly, rather typical)!
Who WOULDN’T want to live in their very own, very real, castle?!
I say go for it! I only found this page because I’m looking for ideas for building a castle of my own.
May your financing issue be resolved quickly by a backer with vision!
Hi, hell yeah, give me a castle over a house any day. Why not tell the bank you plan to franchise castle building and your castle is the model. In Oz that would make it tax deductible. I will wait for a lotto win so I don’t have finance issues when I build my castle. I can be your fist customer. Good luck.
I’m from Knoxville and I just thought I’d drop a quick comment — you kidding me, I’d *love* to live in a castle.
Love the idea and the journey ! I have been long dreaming for a castle type modern house and was just about starting in my quest. I wish and want you to succeed and I am sure you will eventually, don’t even think of giving up. Try all options private investors/finance company etc. And do please check if the castle once completed will it be possible to mortgage based on assessed property value, in such a case then you could fund using private investors and then switch to mortgage. I have also had similar experience like April Wheeler (mentioned above), people don’t understand your aspirations it just takes time or find others who will.
First of all, I would DIE to live in a castle. Secondly, have you found financing!?!?